/Interview: Mode 2
On hip hop, sex, art, and graffiti
Video directors would have ghetto fantasies over gangster rap, and were all too keen to fulfill the “ghetto-superstar” wet dreams of ex-drug dealers or wannabe thugs who glorified their negative lifestyle on wax; the whole “mille-feuille” of falsehood being pushed by the labels and by MTV, contaminating many of those in search of an identity, or in search of an excuse for all the bullshit they did or were still doing in their lives. As Nas himself once put it, “Sometimes the rap game reminds me of the crack game.”
This is also what makes tagging an artistic discipline in itself, beyond its illegality alone; even if it’s a discipline that those in the art media cannot get their head around.
Hip Hop or rap does have this role or function of being the voice of the ghetto, and I do wish to know how bad it can get for some who were just born on the wrong side of the tracks; but it seems to me as if many of these MC’s speak as if their neighbourhoods are only populated by other rivals, or else bitches, or else crack-fiends and losers of all kind. It’s as if everybody was standing on the corner wearing a flak-vest and toting a gun, when in reality these same neighbourhoods also have older people who can’t afford to leave, mothers trying to raise their children properly, often alone, and many others who do long hard jobs for low pay but refuse to give in and choose the seemingly easy road to riches, by resorting to crime against their own.
On a more personal level, what also happened to me was that the people I used to move with grew up and fell out with each other or with me, and crews just broke up through a lot of quarrelling and backstabbing; all due to any one or a combination of those four capital sins of the culture: drugs, girls, money, and envy…
We didn’t hang around as a tight outfit anymore, with dancers, writers, or DJs, and the DJs back then were still the ones who could buy or steal what was coming out with each other, or with me. I regret having missed the rise of record labels like Stones Throw, for instance, who were not pushing the negative vibe like much of what was being released by then. I wasn’t getting to hear much of that in Paris, around that time, as most DJs were only pushing the gangster stuff, or else French rap, with its own lot of negativity. This is why I ended up doing the artwork for so few record sleeves.
Luckily the very few real values to Hip Hop, such as De La Soul or even the Beastie Boys (Yes, you heard it) still carried on with their own agenda, irrespective of pressure from label executives or those dictating what the trends should be…
Hip Hop and, arguably, graffiti are very rhythmic, and I’ve noticed that you recently put together a project-involving dance. Are there parallels there with sex?
Painting large images, whether indoors, or especially outdoors, where you have more freedom of movement is in itself a dance-based discipline. We usually have one good hand that we write or draw with, or one good foot leading us across the club floor, or trying to
out-manoeuvre an opponent on the football field. Large paintings involve being able to place your body in the right place, so as to optimize your centre of gravity, and the point from which you can draw any particular shape or arc. It is already of great importance when sketching out your piece, as this will give you a foretaste of how to deal with the final outlines, or any filling in that must follow your sketch.
When seeing a tag on the street or on a train, I can tell what type of can or marker was used, what colour, what cap on the can, and whether or not the tag came from the wrist, the elbow, or the shoulder, judging by its size. This is where you can read into anybody’s sense of rhythm, flow, and harmony, with regards to the “calligraphic” qualities of the tag. This is also what makes tagging an artistic discipline in itself, beyond its illegality alone; even if it’s a discipline that those in the art media cannot get their head around.
There are parallels between this play on the alphabet that can be found in beat-programming, as well as in dancing, and most probably in writing too, whether this be lyrics or even a book; with the producer, dancer or author seeking again this sense of rhythm, flow, and harmony, from beginning to end of a particular tune, dance move, song or book.
Not all music, dance, or books revolve around sex, though many do; and the ability to seduce our partner and to perform sexually then becomes just as central for an act which may not last as long as the writing of a book, the painting of a piece, or the composition of a particular tune.
Notes, words or strokes must fall exactly into place, or as exact as we possibly can possibly make them fall, as we seek to reach into our partner, reader or spectator, “wooing” them somehow as we combine technique with a deeper sense of perception, striving to touch them deeper still. Technique is just one part in the use of the spray-can or the pencil or the brush. “Flavour”, as we call it, or “soul”, is what takes it to the next level, making it more than just some feat of technical or physical prowess. Maybe that then is an analogy to the “it’s not what you have, but how you use it”, when talking about penis-size or some other sexual attribute that is our lot in life; breasts, arse, whatever.
Try as hard as you may, but whether or not those at the receiving end of all your endeavours will actually be positively responsive is another story. There are great musicians, painters or dancers whose style or subject matter is not really my thing, however talented they are. I don’t read many books, so I can’t speak for authors. I guess that the best that we can hope for is that we don’t leave our audience indifferent, or else have somebody simulating or lying in order to please us…
Your images make me want to bury my face between a woman’s legs - I think what turns me on is how incredibly sexual and confident these women come across. How did this evolve for you? Did you start by sketching nudes or did you go straight to sex acts? And what brings you back to women, again and again?
I guess I haven’t been all that subtle in expressing my fascination with womankind, albeit from what could be perceived as a rather narrow perspective at times. I think that one of the first senses deciding the sex that we’re attracted to would probably be that of smell. This is maybe something reaching right back to our most primitive times, when we could smell the presence of somebody along the wind, and identify them as friend or foe.
The smell of the showers after rugby at secondary school was not particularly attractive to me, as was the gay sauna Amigo in Copenhagen, which I painted in August ’86. This job had actually financed my first “graffiti-trip” to Scandinavia. I think that, were we to find ourselves in an absolutely dark room with another person, our sense of smell would decide whether or not we would be attracted to this other person.
When seeing a tag on the street or on a train, I can tell what type of can or marker was used, what colour, what cap on the can, and whether or not the tag came from the wrist, the elbow, or the shoulder, judging by its size. This is where you can read into anybody’s sense of rhythm, flow, and harmony, with regards to the “calligraphic” qualities of the tag. This is also what makes tagging an artistic discipline in itself, beyond its illegality alone; even if it’s a discipline that those in the art media cannot get their head around.
There are parallels between this play on the alphabet that can be found in beat-programming, as well as in dancing, and most probably in writing too, whether this be lyrics or even a book; with the producer, dancer or author seeking again this sense of rhythm, flow, and harmony, from beginning to end of a particular tune, dance move, song or book.
Not all music, dance, or books revolve around sex, though many do; and the ability to seduce our partner and to perform sexually then becomes just as central for an act which may not last as long as the writing of a book, the painting of a piece, or the composition of a particular tune.
Notes, words or strokes must fall exactly into place, or as exact as we possibly can possibly make them fall, as we seek to reach into our partner, reader or spectator, “wooing” them somehow as we combine technique with a deeper sense of perception, striving to touch them deeper still. Technique is just one part in the use of the spray-can or the pencil or the brush. “Flavour”, as we call it, or “soul”, is what takes it to the next level, making it more than just some feat of technical or physical prowess. Maybe that then is an analogy to the “it’s not what you have, but how you use it”, when talking about penis-size or some other sexual attribute that is our lot in life; breasts, arse, whatever.
Try as hard as you may, but whether or not those at the receiving end of all your endeavours will actually be positively responsive is another story. There are great musicians, painters or dancers whose style or subject matter is not really my thing, however talented they are. I don’t read many books, so I can’t speak for authors. I guess that the best that we can hope for is that we don’t leave our audience indifferent, or else have somebody simulating or lying in order to please us…
Your images make me want to bury my face between a woman’s legs - I think what turns me on is how incredibly sexual and confident these women come across. How did this evolve for you? Did you start by sketching nudes or did you go straight to sex acts? And what brings you back to women, again and again?
I guess I haven’t been all that subtle in expressing my fascination with womankind, albeit from what could be perceived as a rather narrow perspective at times. I think that one of the first senses deciding the sex that we’re attracted to would probably be that of smell. This is maybe something reaching right back to our most primitive times, when we could smell the presence of somebody along the wind, and identify them as friend or foe.
The smell of the showers after rugby at secondary school was not particularly attractive to me, as was the gay sauna Amigo in Copenhagen, which I painted in August ’86. This job had actually financed my first “graffiti-trip” to Scandinavia. I think that, were we to find ourselves in an absolutely dark room with another person, our sense of smell would decide whether or not we would be attracted to this other person.
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- 08/03/2010
